Maybe your argument is ungettable.
Let's look at what our famous young art student has been up to defending her "Nice Guys Rape" poster.
http://feministartdegree.tumblr.com/post/39442800441/trigger-warning-rape-rape-culture
Someone called Loaded For Bear posted a fair rebuttal. He basically says that, once someone commits rape, they prove that they are not a nice person. The rapist was only pretending to be nice in the first place.
This makes sense to me, but of course, I just don't get it.
Feminist Art Degree sets me straight (in caps, so I know she's serious).
BY TELLING ME HOW TO DEFINE MY ASSAULTER YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN RAPE CULTURE.Hmm... Nobody told you how to define your assaulter. They simply defined your assaulter. Assaulters aren't nice people. You can believe whatever you want to about the person.
BY TELLING ME TO DEFINE MY ASSAULTER AS SOLELY “A MONSTER” YOU ARE TAKING AWAY MY RIGHT TO DEFINE THEM AS I SO PLEASE.
Again, believe what you want to believe. Reality is separate.
BY TELLING ME TO DEFINE MY ASSAULTER AS SOLELY “A MONSTER” YOU ARE TAKING AWAY MY RIGHT TO MY OWN ASSAULT NARRATIVE, WHICH I ALONE LIVED.
That narrative in your head is your own business. Again, narrate away. The truth exists independant of narrative.
BY TELLING ME ONLY MONSTERS RAPE YOU ARE NEGATING THE INFINITE ASSAULT STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO WERE RAPED BY NICE PEOPLE.
Negating? I'm not sure that's the word. Infinite assault stories? Wow, does that mean the stories are infinitely long or that there is an infinite supply? Human existence is finite, so... stories of any kind are kind of finite.
Let's offer some creative criticism here. Let's say that nice people don't rape, but, many people have been raped by nasty people pretending to be nice.
BY TELLING ME ONLY MONSTERS RAPE YOU ARE PERPETUATING RAPE CULTURE’S IDEA OF THE “IDEAL RAPE”; THAT ONLY CERTAIN ASSAULTS COUNT BY BEING DEFINED WITHIN NARROW PARAMETERS; THAT IF YOU “DIDN’T FIGHT BACK/WERE DRUNK/WERE BOUGHT DINNER/THEY WERE NICE”/ETC, IT WASN’T REALLY RAPE.
By telling me that only certain assaults count, you are being asked to define rape. Rape has a definition. For a general definition, see Wikipedia: Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse, which is initiated by one or more persons against another person without that person's consent.
BY TELLING ME NICE GUYS DON’T RAPE- “WOULD NEVER DO SUCH A THING”- YOU ARE LETTING SAID NICE PEOPLE WHO DO RAPE OFF THE HOOK.No, you are denying me the right to define nice guys as people who do not do things that are not nice. Pretending to be nice in order to get into a position where one can commit rape is not only a crime against the victim, it is an offence against nice guys. The deception is just another part of the overall malevolent nature of the person.
BY TELLING ME NICE GUYS DON’T RAPE- “WOULD NEVER DO SUCH A THING”- YOU ARE CONTINUING TO PERPETUATE RAPE CULTURE’S IDEAL RAPE NARRATIVE AND IGNORING ALL THE ACTUAL, REAL, LEGITIMATE RAPES THAT OCCUR OUTSIDE OF THOSE DEFINITIONS.No, I don't understand. Rape Culture is a myth. I might as well say, by not clapping your hands behind your back three times before speaking you are perpetuating the evil reign of the Invisible Monkey Brain. In order to understand, I'd have to believe in it. You are trying to control the narrative.
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Say I have a friend named Barry. Now I think that Barry is a nice guy. But, when I invite him into my house, he waits until I'm comfortable and then punches me in the face, knocks me unconscious and steals my belongings. "Well," I say, "he's really a nice guy." If you try to tell me that Barry is really an asshole pretending to be a nice guy is that defining my narrative? Is it participating in a theft and assault culture? No, it's telling it like it is. Barry was never a nice guy.
If, on the other hand, Barry and I participate in Mixed Martial Arts and he knocks me unconscious, it is entirely possible that he is a nice guy. Even if, one time, I tried to tap out and he didn't see it and knocked me silly. It was a mistake, and nice guys do make them.
So, I can say that someone punched me in the face and is still a nice guy, but, I can't say that someone assaulted me and is still a nice guy. There is a big difference. Assault is a crime and it is intentional and involuntary on the part of the victim.
Rape is a crime. It is not allowed or enabled in any culture in which I participate. I find rape repulsive and I also find it repulsive for someone to include anyone who commits rape in the category of nice people.
I refuse to "get" any statement that makes such a claim.
3 comments:
Hero, I think your previous posts were more thought-out than this one, to be honest. I feel like your response this time around was a knee-jerk reaction that is equally unconstructive to the art we're debating in the first case.
Since you are refusing to get the argument, I'll lay it out.
She is saying "Nice Guys Rape" because it is the guy who appears nice who rapes. It is a warning. Whether he really is a nice guy or not is irrelevant. This is like saying, "Glowing metal burns."
This is the same sort of thinking that makes us afraid of snakes. Some snakes are poisonous and deadly. Since we can't always tell the deadly ones from the safe ones, we automatically write off all snakes as dangerous.
Nice Guys Rape MEANS your date might be a nice guy, but he might be a monster pretending to be a nice guy. Which, interestingly, is the message you and loaded-for-bear seem to be trying to convey: that rapists have to pretend to be nice but never were.
The issue with the "Nice Guys Rape" slogan is that it does target the entire male gender, which is unfair, unconstructive, and offensive. I might as well say "Pretty Girls are looking for free drinks," as it would get a similar reaction from feminists. Both statements are true in some instances. The problem is the phrasing that makes it seem like an absolute truth when it is not.
These kinds of slogans or ways of thinking were also used against blacks and Mexicans in the US. Both were demonized as thieves or murderers. Hell, Cannabis was made illegal using a machine of racist propaganda that sought to link smokin' the reefer with black and chicano culture. And while it is unavoidable that there are some blacks or latinos who are thieves or murderers or stoners, that does not mean we can classify the entire group as such. That is what feministartdegree's piece is trying to do. She is trying to link all males with rapists because it is inevitably true that some males ARE rapists. And she should be ashamed of herself for perpetuating the kind of bigotry that, no doubt, she has been taught was oh so horrible when it was applied to blacks, latinos, or homosexuals.
Your previous posts indicated a kind of thoughtfulness I find admirable. Try to capture that again--the MRM needs thoughtful people in its ranks, not a bunch of he-man woman-haters who will dismiss an argument because they don't like it or the person who said it. That's what happened to feminism--it was co-opted by she-woman man-haters who ruined the movement, the philosophy, and everything they stood for. And now look where we are :P .
Anonymous,
Thank you for your criticism. I'll admit that I kind of rushed this post because, being a father, my time is not really mine. I would like to take issue with your categorizing it as a knee-jerk response that was not thought out.
I was not trying to give a full critique of the concept of patriarchy or rape culture. You can watch some videos by Girl Writes What or Barbarossa if you'd like. I just don't have time to hash out my full thoughts on the matter. The post by Feminist Art Degree to which I was responding didn't care to describe patriarchy and rape culture and made no arguments in support of them. So, why should my response be a thoughtful rebuttal of the concepts that she takes for granted? I did not intend to be flippant. I merely intended to rebuke certain statements she made and point out the fallacies.
At best, the Nice Guys Rape poster is ambiguous. You assume that she means people pretending to be nice can rape. She has repeatedly stated another interpretation: that people can be rapists and still be nice people. I have asserted that nice people do not rape. Rape is a harmful act. Nice people, by definition, do not harm others. Therefore, whoever rapes is not a nice person.
I agree that this subject deserves far more thought and I hope to write a full, thoughtful post when time permits. To do so, I have to get into the definition of rape which is a very touchy and controversial subject.
I take serious issue with the propensity to include more types of sexual assault and sexual misconduct into the definition of rape and then turn around and say that all rapes are equally destructive. You must either admit that there are different severities of rape or else define rape as only a certain type of sexual assault. This is simple logic. It does a great a disservice to victims of violent rape to say that what they suffered is the same as someone who got drunk and had sex and regretted it. Conversely, it does not help the person who regrets their drunken sex get over their feelings by telling them that what they suffered was as bad as a violent rape. I don’t mean to belittle either event or discount the emotional damage that these types of things can cause. They are what they are and they are just not the same.
I characterized it as knee-jerk because I felt like I was reading the party line at a few points. One of my biggest fears for the MRM is that it will be co-opted the same way feminism has been co-opted. That’s why I say that we need people who are thoughtful and open-minded in the MRM. The writers over at AVfM, for the most part, are that way; but, when you go to the forums, it’s a different story. A lot of the people there sound like pawns, repeating the same shit almost without variation and patting each other on the back for it. This worries me.
Not to say that I disagree with what they’re saying, mind you. I just feel like there’s already a stagnation of thought over there.
Poster interpretations aside, I think the point of fem-art-degree’s poster is to be a warning to all her girls. That nice guy might still turn out to be your rapist this evening. Whether it’s cause nice guys rape or because rapists pretend to be nice guys is irrelevant. The fact is that your nice guy might be a rapist.
I’m sure the harm in such a statement is obvious.
And you’re absolutely right. Another very harmful thing is including morning-after regret with aggravated sexual assault. I look forward to reading a logical, objective analysis on your blog in the future. Don’t worry about how long it takes with the kids bugging you, though—it takes as long as it takes, with or without distractions. The priority is quality, not speed. I don’t keep checking your blog because you post every single Tuesday .
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